Dominion

May. 1st, 2016 10:12 am
ghoti_mhic_uait: (Game Plan)
[personal profile] ghoti_mhic_uait
After my last post about Dominion, in which I was talking about how it's pleasingly easy to fit into small gaps of time, some of y'all were unconvinced by my claim that it's consistent timewise, and I was given a challenge.


"Try one game with Witch, Militia and Village, another with Chapel, Mine and Smithy. Then try one with Throne Room, Workshop and Gardens.

I would expect them to play out utterly differently, and for the first to take at least twice as long as the other two!
...
How about these eight cards: Woodcutter, Chancellor, Market, Adventurer, Moat, Village, Workshop, Mine; then add Witch+Militia,Chapel+Smithy or Throne Room+Gardens for three contrasting games?"


I timed only the game play time, not the set up or scoring time, and in fact we played two of the games back to back so that was a good decision. In all three games, we got to the first reshuffle at 20seconds in, indicating that there's some consistency? I'm not sure how interesting that is.

Our first game, with Witch & Militia, took 8 minutes 36 seconds. Second, with Chapel & Smithy, took 9 minutes 41 seconds. Our third, with Throne Room & Gardens, took 6 minutes and 26 seconds. In all games there was a gap of 5 minutes between first Province purchase and end of game, that was consistent.

So, one of the games was about 50% longer than one of the others, but it wasn't the predicted game! And set up/scoring is a significant proportion of the time, hence my feeling that it's a 20 minute game rather than a 10 minute game. But the predicted long game really wasn't.

Date: 2016-05-01 12:54 pm (UTC)
gerald_duck: (Oh really?)
From: [personal profile] gerald_duck
Boggle. I would have expected the game with Witch and Militia to become a slog: your deck would rapidly get diluted with curses, and you'd often be playing with only a three-card hand. That would make getting to a spend of $8 very difficult, so it would be a slow, painful scramble to get as many VP as possible, taking as few Curses as possible, before three piles had run out — and Curses would probably be the first of those three!

With Chapel and Smithy, I'd expect decks to become lean and mean almost at once, resulting in a rapid accumulation of Gold, then Provinces. This is the game I'd expect to be really quick. (Start by buying Chapel and Silver, then keep trashing Copper and Estates, buying Silver and Gold. Very quickly you're down to a deck of only four or five cards word more than $8. Then start buying Provinces, buying more Gold with $6 or $7, picking up one Smithy the first time poor shuffle luck means you drop below $6, picking up the odd Duchy for the tiebreak as the Provinces run low.)

With Throne Room and Gardens, I would expect a game of intermediate length which ends with a rush to deplete Gardens and two other piles. I'd expect people to build an engine out of some mixture of Workshops, Villages and Throne Rooms, also buying Gardens and Duchies. If it looks like becoming a Mirror, I'd pick up Workshop and Gardens first because I can't afford to let my opponent get the majority of Gardens, otherwise, hmm… Workshop and Village, then Throne Room and another Workshop, then an explosion of Gardens, picking up Duchies when I can, more Workshops and Villages with $3 spends, Estates with $2 and always at least buying Copper.

I'm guessing the three games you played were more similar than that?

Date: 2016-05-01 12:56 pm (UTC)
gerald_duck: (quack)
From: [personal profile] gerald_duck
PS: Yes, all games are going to play at about the same speed until the first reshuffle. At least until you get some of the more esoteric cards in expansions, your first two turns will each be a straightforward purchase. But then people start playing actions!

Date: 2016-05-01 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
Yes, I was more surprised that the time from first Province to end of game was so consistent.

Date: 2016-05-01 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
Yes, much more similar than that.

In the first game, Colin played Militia a lot, but we both got moats early on so witch was basically opposite a moat most of the time and it wasn't hugely significant.

We both tried the Chapel technique but didn't do it anything like as successfully as you suggest, possibly we just didn't have enough chapels.

I can't remember the last time a game ended by depleting three other piles instead of the Provinces.

But, it's a game we play when we're looking for something quick and not too thinky, and for that it's perfect exactly the way we play it.

Date: 2016-05-01 10:46 pm (UTC)
gerald_duck: (penelope)
From: [personal profile] gerald_duck
You should never need more than one Chapel. (Though it's maybe worth buying a second on turn 3 in the rare circumstance that you manage to draw Estate,Estate,Estate,Copper,Copper.)

The trick is to trash everything, all the time. 99 times out of 100, shrinking your deck is more important than buying new stuff. Even if you draw Chapel, Copper, Copper, Copper, Silver, trash the three Coppers and buy nothing.


I'm wanting to play some Dominion with you now. (-8

Date: 2016-05-02 12:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
I'm happy to play Dominion with you, but usually I see you in a situation where I could play exciting new game instead. Mostly I play what R tells me is called Goldfish, if that helps?

Date: 2016-05-02 01:50 pm (UTC)
gerald_duck: (freaky)
From: [personal profile] gerald_duck
Ah, but do the expansions count as exciting new games?

Dominion: Empires is arriving later this month!

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