ghoti_mhic_uait: (Judith and Andreas)
[personal profile] ghoti_mhic_uait
I find this really, really hard, and I don't have a good answer. But it's like everything I do - I try and work out what I think and then say it just like that. From there, they ask questions to work out what they want to know.

The big one for us is chocolate, so I say, the people who grow that chocolate take children from their families and make them work instead of letting them be free and happy. Or similar. So we buy chocolate that lets people be free. Or for Nestle, the thing about water is what I normally say 'this company steal people's water and make them buy it back, but I think water is a basic human right'.

I want to protect my children as long as possible. But to a certain extent they just don't ask until they're old enough to hear the answer. Andreas knows that I'll say yes if it has the FairTrade symbol on, but doesn't really ask why it needs that, whereas Judith is more inclined to ask more details. But on the other hand, keeping them safe is a privelige and we owe it to our brethren who don't have that privilege to be upfront and honest both with ourselves and with our children. It's a balancing act.

Date: 2015-12-03 03:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
*hugs* I know it's really hard and impossible to do well in all ways, but I think you do really well at setting a good example of trying to walk that line.

Date: 2015-12-03 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
Thank you. I wish I could explain how I manage better, but basically the answer is 'I just wing it'.

Date: 2015-12-03 06:21 pm (UTC)
hooloovoo_42: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hooloovoo_42
It's a tough one. I like this company, because they try to match their products to projects they fund. If I buy bottled water, I want the profits to help those for whom clean water isn't a given.

http://onedifference.org/

You're helping your kids to understand that not everyone has what we have and that helping other people is important.

Date: 2015-12-03 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
Thanks. That's certainly what I'm aiming for, so it's good to know that's coming across.

Date: 2015-12-03 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kaberett.livejournal.com
(I am pretty stridently of the opinion that children are for protecting. That we can't protect all children, or can do our best but still fail, is not in my view an argument against protecting the ones that we can; so yes, I think that at some point they should as Good Citizens be aware of where their food comes from and so on, but I don't think that telling them things that will upset them while they are entirely powerless to do anything about those things is necessarily the right answer? And I don't think you do either, to be clear, but that's where I am on that particular flavour of balancing act at the moment.)

Date: 2015-12-03 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
Yes, I think you're right. And a lot of this is terrifying and scaring my children is not going to accomplish anything good.

Also, thank you for saying because I think it is an important point, and it isn't one I made.

Date: 2015-12-04 09:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
Actually, thinking about this some more, I think you've pinned down the exact difference I'm looking for. I only ever talk about things that I can do something about, however minor. Like, we can put food in a food bank so we do talk about how people are hungry *and we can help them*. We never watch the news, because there's too much scary/depressing stuff that we can't do anything about.

In the specific case of ethical consumerism it only ever comes up because we are trying to *do* something - even if it might not make a difference, we're making the effort.


So, thank you again for making me think about it.

Date: 2015-12-04 11:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kaberett.livejournal.com
I am very glad that it was a helpful articulation! I'm not sure it's one I'd managed to make quite that clearly to myself before either, so thank you likewise.

Date: 2015-12-04 09:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] woodpijn.livejournal.com
so I say, the people who grow that chocolate take children from their families and make them work instead of letting them be free and happy.
That's basically what I planned to say about chocolate, back when they were too young to ask. (Except it's usually more like "we don't know whether the people who grow that chocolate take children etc"). But I've never actually said it. I just end up saying things like "The strawberry flavour one looks nice, do you want that instead?"

I don't want B to lie awake at night worrying she's going to be kidnapped by chocolate slavers (and she probably would worry that) - but I also don't think it would teach the right message to allay that fear by saying blithely "it's OK, it only happens to children in other countries!"

Also, it never seems the right time to have that discussion actually in the shop or cafe or whatever, but I don't think of it at other times.

I guess I could bring it up in a more positive way in the context of buying or cooking with some actual fairtrade chocolate, and then just refer back to it if she's asking for some other chocolate in a shop.

Date: 2015-12-04 09:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
Yes, that fear is my worry. I never mention it without them asking first - I only tell them they things they actually ask about - which means that all my conversations of this type have been in shops! But yes, I often just diverge into 'look for the fairtrade symbol' and then we can talk about positives, making sure the farmer had a fair wage, etc.

Date: 2015-12-05 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badriya.livejournal.com
Because grandson was brought up a vegan he's been used to arguments against some foods from the start, although dad is not even veggie. He decided recently to be veggie and eat dairy things and has eaten eggs for a year or so. His mum had said when he was old enough to understand and decide he could. He's 9. He's been in Woodcraft, school gardening club and been taken foraging and on camping done that too, so does know where some foods come from. You'd expect the child of a Greenpeace employee to be brought up like that :). It did make it easy to refuse things like cakes or chips from chain food places for years, but that's no longer true :)

Date: 2015-12-10 06:19 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I screwed up on this one a little. I said, 'not Nestle, because Nestle kills babies' which was fine until one of them said, 'but we're not babies', and I had to explain that it was the companies policies that were leading to other babies being killed rather than the product I wasn't buying being bad for babies.
(Alison)
Bye the buy, there was a Charlie and Lola book about chocolate, which included fairtrade. I don't know if you've seen it?

Date: 2015-12-21 09:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoti.livejournal.com
That's an easy mistake to make. I didn't see the Charlie and Lola book, maybe I should look out for it.

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